Successful Podcast Pitching with Mai-Kee Tsang

[00:00:00] Emma-Louise: Hi guys, welcome to this week’s episode of the ambitious introvert podcast with me and the Louise. And this week we are talking about. Podcasts. So, so many of my clients and my audience will say to me, you know, oh, I would love to be on a podcast, but I don’t know how to do it. Or I would have to be featured on a podcast, but I’ve never been invited to one.

And so I couldn’t think of anyone better to come and talk us through the ins and outs of podcast guesting than today’s guest. Would you like to introduce yourself? 

[00:00:35] Mai-Kee: I’m good. Thank you so much. I’m so honored to be here as a fellow ambitious introvert. So my name is and I’m the sustainable visibility mentor and podcast guesting strategist.

I’m also the host of my own podcast, the quiet rebel. So I know a thing or two about guesting on podcasts because in the summer of 2019, I actually pitched myself to 101 podcasts within 30 days. Necessarily recommend to people to do these days. But I will tell you this, being in the trenches of doing that pitch challenge has taught me a lot about what podcast is really one, because the thing is a lot of people actually miss the mark when it comes to sending pitches.

And the thing is when I got 33% of the booking. Not, not an open rate for my emails, but an actual booking rate. I actually took that opportunity to actually ask the podcasters, what do they look for? And that’s what I’m really excited to share with you today to really help bridge that communication gap that tends to be there between podcasters and well-meaning guests.

[00:01:44] Emma-Louise: So, I don’t know if I told you this when I guested on quiet rebels podcast, but I had been set a similar challenge by my coach. She had given me the challenge to get 20 nos. On podcasts because Hey, she said that would make me aim for bigger podcasts maybe than if I was trying to get yeses. So it’s just a mindset flip really of like aim for the nose.

So she’s like, you know, send, you know, pitch to 50 podcasts that you think you will you’ll get a no. And so the first podcast that I pitched to was the boss, babe podcast. And I D I didn’t even get a, no, I got to we’ll keep you on file. Um, I’m sure it was a polite way of saying yeah. But I was like, okay, I’m, I’m happy with that.

I got to reply. The second podcast that I pitched to was yours. I thought this is a podcast guest strategist. So she’s going to be so 

[00:02:36] Mai-Kee: picky with my pitch like this. This is a definite no. And sent it out. And then I was. Yeah. And actually, I just want to take a moment to, cause I actually shared with you the reason why I’m, I’m actually not going to share the precise detail because I don’t want people to copy it.

I want to see it again. But there is one detail that you shared in the subject line that no one else has ever done. And because of that, that, that’s what made me open it. And plus, because I am also in India, I don’t, I don’t normally call myself ambitious, but I’m a tourist. So that means that, you know, I kind of like, I know what I want.

And I go after what I want when I know what that is. But also what I liked is that you can combine the software. Of an introvert, but also really highlight their strengths. And that’s what you’re all about. And I’m also a highly sensitive person. So if that, Hmm, I’m interested in what Emma has to say. And it was a fantastic episode and I believe that you’ve got a client, right.

Guesting on my podcast. Right? 

[00:03:42] Emma-Louise: I did someone reached out to me because they they’d heard it and sent me a message and said, I just really resonated. And then they spent the next two or three days binge on this podcast and then booked. Cool. So incredible. Um, which just goes to show the power of aligning, you know, align with people with a similar audience to yourself and that you will provide in value.

Let me bring in you here today because I’ve saying no, you know, and we’re friends. I know that you will bring value to my audience and that my audience will resonate with you. There’s no point in me bringing in someone that a doesn’t have anything useful to say or be, is so far out of left field, but they go, well, I didn’t really resonate with this person at all.

[00:04:25] Mai-Kee: Well, I’ll do my best to provide valleys. Tell me how good but provide value. Right? 

[00:04:31] Emma-Louise: Maybe these people listening now that are like, I love podcasts. I’m an introvert. I, listen, I listen to so many podcasts. It’s amazing, but oh, I would not know how to, you know, I wouldn’t have a clue about how to get on. What would be the first thing you would 

[00:04:45] Mai-Kee: tell them?

Yes. So before you even think about pitching podcasts, because you know, the power of them, and as Emily, as you said, that you can book clients directly from it, if you’d like to. But the first thing I would recommend that you do is to really ask yourself if you’re in this for the long haul, because podcast guesting can absolutely give you immediate results.

But sometimes it is a slower burn. And so it’s actually, you know, it’s something that you do need to do a long term to get to, to keep reaping the benefits from it. First of all, second of all, you would need to see that. See it from the big picture vision perspective that it’s not about how many podcasts that you guest on because unfortunately, a lot of the guesting industry where booking agencies, PR agencies, they offer the service to, you know, promise you the power of, you know, quote unquote yeah.

Exposure. And I really dislike that word. First of all. And I can go into that later. Exposure and, you know, increasing your leads or all those things, but what it really fails to acknowledge is the person behind the podcast. So you need to remember that every podcast is a person first and a podcast is second, or maybe a podcast at third or fourth.

It’s not the only identity, but a lot of the pitch approach. Assume that that is their identity and it’s not. And third of all, to help you really make the most out of this. You need to see that it’s it doesn’t stop and start at the interview. You know, a lot of people just think, okay, I’ve done the interview next, which will be thank you next, like Ariana Grande’s.

Um, but. The reality of it is that podcast guesting is like a gateway into a plethora of opportunities that you otherwise wouldn’t have easy access to because those opportunities require a strong amount of trust. And I feel that a lot of people miss that and they just focus on getting on however many podcasts that they can and yeah, on one.

And it’s great to be on more podcasts and everything. But if it’s not aligned, it’s not really going to do you much. Good. 

[00:07:17] Emma-Louise: I couldn’t agree more. And from, uh, someone that’s been, you know, obviously has a podcast than has been a guest on numerous podcasts as well. I have to think when I’m guesting on a podcast, am I happy to bring this podcast to my audience?

Because as a guest, I obviously want to support that podcast in promoting the podcast. We then, you know, within my own social channels or my email lists. So to me, I only really want to guest on ones where there’s a mutual, you know, energy exchange. There’s there’s value for everyone involved. If that makes sense.

[00:07:51] Mai-Kee: For sure. Yeah. So remember that. Podcasts that you’re guesting on. You’re sharing that you’re advocating for them as well. And in this day and age, you know, um, the market is becoming more and more sophisticated. Their BS meters are very fine, especially 

[00:08:09] Emma-Louise: if they’re highly sensitive than introverts. 

[00:08:12] Mai-Kee: Yeah. So they’re going to be very mindful of who they invest their time and energy and money into.

So that’s why we need to honor that we need to realize that. Every person who we collaborate with, whether we’re an affiliate for them, whether they are on our podcast or we’re on their podcast, we’re just showing like who we’re advocating for, you know? And if you choose the partnership that is going to bring you great money, but will risk you losing trust in your people.

In my opinion, it’s not worth it. However people do have different priorities. So of course, if money is a priority, then no judgment there. But if you’re somebody who really wants to take care of your people for the longterm, not just after they’ve given you money or not just when they’re a potential lead for you, but that you’re really there beyond that.

You’re going to care who you’re going to be partnering with. And it really does show a. With who you’re guesting, like whose podcast you’re guesting on? I think 

[00:09:19] Emma-Louise: in the same way, kind of in reverse is that when I get someone pitch me to pair on this podcast, I straight, I look at it through the lens of the listener.

So, you know, it would be really easy for me to look and go, oh, they’ve got a lot of followers. Not that that, you know, funny metrics didn’t necessarily mean they’re got love listeners, but I could go, oh, you know, they’ve got a big account. They’ll promote me. That will be really good. But I, I look straight away from the angle of my listeners.

I’m like, is this person going to bring that value? Are they talking about something that maybe. I don’t know as much about so they can come and bring that expertise and share it with my audience. It’s I, when I set this up from day one, it was about that it was a vehicle to bring as much value to these ambitious introverts as possible.

[00:10:07] Mai-Kee: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel the exact same with my quiet rebels who are they’re my community. And. I literally think of myself as like a mama bear. Like I will protect my people. And then I think the fundamental missing ingredient from a lot of pictures that I receive and what fellow podcast has received is that lack of respect for that.

It’s one thing to pitch something that’s completely irrelevant, but I think. Speaks volumes about that person’s character. If they don’t show any respect whatsoever to the host and the people that they’re serving, you can just kind of tell when it’s a self-serving kind of pitch. 

[00:10:53] Emma-Louise: I recently got pitched by email and it was someone and she’s like, oh, I’ve got two people to recommend.

I think she was a VA rather than a Booker and that it was just, you know, copy and pasted bio of the people. But I couldn’t see any relevance whatsoever. Really to my audience. And I’m like this, this is like a numbers game. This is send 10 podcast pitches today. 

[00:11:17] Mai-Kee: Yeah. That that’s the thing. Right. And that’s why I don’t recommend doing the challenge that I did with, um, like don’t get me wrong.

I did personalize every single one of the pictures. So it wasn’t anything like that. I didn’t push my bio or attach my headshot or anything like that. But the reason why I don’t recommend anyone to do it because there was times in that challenge when I felt like, oh, okay, I need to do 10 today. And every time I felt that I stopped, I stopped myself saying, Hey, you’re not in the right position.

You are not in the right frame of mind to even be sending these. Don’t send them. So I had to actually stop myself from sanding because intention is infused in any communication that we do, whether it’s email, whether it’s a DM, a voice note, whatever it is, intention is everything. And even if it doesn’t change the copy in this email, sending it just to checks this off your list for the day is not going to be received very well.

Right. It’s interesting that you say about, um, whether it’s a VA, whether it’s a booking agency or a PR agency. Um, that’s the very reason why I’m creating a certification to train VAs and internal team members to help them pitch podcasts with integrity because it’s clearly needed. And until the tide has been turned, when podcasts is saying, oh, I received more good pitches in bad until that happens.

There’s a lot of work. And I would love to share, um, just a very simple method with your audience today, Emma Louise, just to help them set themselves apart from this sea of sameness. Yes, please. 

[00:13:06] Emma-Louise: Do we want, we want these ambitious introverts 

[00:13:09] Mai-Kee: for sure. For sure. Yes. And because. You know, if you’re a highly sensitive person, then you already have that degree of consideration and respect that is missing in a lot of people.

So you’re already pretty far ahead, but there’s one method that I want to share with you today that it’s super easy to remember. And if you remember this, you’ll be fine. Okay. So it’s called the PR method. And PR does not stand for public relations. 

[00:13:39] Emma-Louise: I like how you used an 

[00:13:40] Mai-Kee: acronym that was clear with exactly.

I’m such a sucker for like acronyms relative ration. Right. And works with the things. And yeah, it’s two lessons. Just remember this. And this is definitely coming from my past copyrights herself. Cause I used to be a copywriter and this is what it is. So P it stands for 

[00:14:02] Emma-Louise: personalization.

[00:14:07] Mai-Kee: And you’d think, well, duh, and I’m like, yeah, it’s common sense. Absolutely uncommon practice and personalization is there is when you say the name, you spell it correctly, you use the podcast name, you add a specific takeaway or something like that to an episode that you’ve listened to. Because when people say I’m a great fan of your show, I’m a frequent listener.

We know when people are talking out of their ass. Okay. And you may think that, oh, if it’s what everybody says, like, yeah. And that’s the problem. Everybody says that. And we can tell who listens and who doesn’t. So personalization is key from the subject line, from the initial intro to how you segue into the.

Personalization matters. And even if you have the best pitch in the world, that is not going to matter if you don’t personalize it. As soon as I see someone doesn’t write my name or they don’t write it correctly, I don’t care what the pitch says. I file it in an actual photo I have in my inbox called bad podcast.

No, you don’t. I do. And I, I use that in my, um, I’ve used it in my workshop series where I actually deconstruct the bad pictures. Of course I blow out the identifying information. Cause I’m not that kind of person to just call them out like that. However, I will use it as teaching me too. Because how many emails do you have in this folder?

I haven’t checked recently, but sometimes they’re from agencies. Sometimes they’re from VAs or the person themselves. But, um, I don’t know, cause it’s not just mine that gets in there. One of my best friends, who’s a podcaster as well. Every time she receives a bad podcast, but she forwarded it to me. She’s like make a teach these people.

But yes, there is, um, an actual folder and I do use it as teaching material because this is the reality of what’s currently there. It’s not the entire reality because they’re all good pitchers. And here’s the other part of the PR method, right? So the first part is personalization. That’s the initial hook.

That’s going to keep someone interested to at least read the rest of the year. No, the all stands full, 

[00:16:32] Emma-Louise: relevant.

[00:16:35] Mai-Kee: So you said so yourself, that when you received this pitch where there were two people who were just like the buyers were copied and pasted into this email, the thing is with that, it’s not always relevant. They, that kind of pitch approach is trying to get the podcaster to apply themselves to the picture when it should be the other way round where the pitcher is trying to apply themselves to the point.

Because if it’s the other way round, it comes across as very termed deaf. It comes across as very disrespectful because they’re trying to get onto our platforms without even considering what we stand for. And that’s not okay. 

[00:17:21] Emma-Louise: I think that actually hurts as an sense too. It feels, I feel like a number.

Yeah, exactly. I want to feel like you’ve you care about me and my people and what I do, whereas it is very much, it’s like the whole cold DM thing, isn’t it? You know, it’s clear that people that just copy and paste and then send an X number and the hope of getting a response. Exactly. 

[00:17:46] Mai-Kee: But it just feels horrible.

It does. It feels like they don’t see us. They just see what we have. Right. And for any podcast. So they want to be seen, heard and acknowledged just like any other human being on this planet. Right. And the way that we can help to do that is by following this PR method, because it’s, that’s going to be a timeless method.

That’s always going to be relevant. You can’t go wrong with personalizing and making something relevant to someone. And the personalization acts as the initial one. Right. And the relevancy is the retention piece. You need both because if you’re super personal, that’s irrelevant. It’s not going to work if you’re not personalizing upfront, but you’ve got a great relevant pitch.

That’s not going to matter either. So you definitely need both. And I promise you that if you start implementing the PR method in your pitch approach, it’s going to make the world of a difference. 

[00:18:45] Emma-Louise: I, I can say as someone that receives numerous podcasts pitches the week, my best one that stands out, that landed in my inbox.

Tick, both boxes and what it really did. And I think we’ve had this discussion before. It’s someone that I had connected with on socialized. I was familiar with them and there was the personalization. There was, you know, yeah. I know we’ve connected before and you know, a bit about me. Um, and it was, then it was like, I would love to do an episode based on this.

And here’s the reason why it would be valuable to you. Ambitious introverts. And I’ll attach my media kit at the end. And if you’ve got any questions reach out and it was that, and it was laid out for me. Yeah. I already knew that person. So it was warm as familiar and the episodes, they even like pitched the title and the whole vision for the episode on why they were good for what they would share, why my audience would benefit straight away.

I was just like,

that was the easiest. Yes. Because every, a bit, like you were saying, you know, with me when you read it you’re oh yeah. I’m highly sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. I’m an introvert. Yeah. I like that. You just get that feel of this is the right thing. 

[00:19:59] Mai-Kee: Yeah. They would, that person did is that they made it as easiest. They made it as easy as possible for you to say.

They overcame any objections or any questions that you might, that you may have had, and they laid it all out for you, but they left it in your court to decide that’s the respect piece 

[00:20:20] Emma-Louise: a hundred percent. And it was a great episode. And I’m really thrilled that that that person re reached out. But as you say, unfortunately, that’s not the norm.

[00:20:31] Mai-Kee: Not yet, but yeah, by the time my case finished, she’s 

[00:20:39] Emma-Louise: on a mission. So in your 101 podcast pitches with your 33%, which we know is an amazing results, however, Shaya nervous, more anxious. Introverts amongst us might think that 66% knows, like I’m, I’m going to receive more nos than yeses. Was that something that crossed your mind at the time?

Oh 

[00:21:02] Mai-Kee: yes, absolutely. And when you asked me the question later on about my favorite book recommendation, I, I did read that book again during, um, during this time, um, actually funny enough, it wasn’t 66% nos. It was actually more 33%. 10%. No. And, uh, 56%. Oh, yeah. Sometimes you get radiation. Sometimes you see, there is an issue we’ll list, by the way, when people say, oh, pop you on the list is an actual message.

So it’s not just a gen. It’s not just a gentle way to say no. Like someone asks you out on the street pal. Sorry, I have a boyfriend or, sorry, I have a partner. It’s like, but yeah, like if you don’t, it’s not like that. Actually I haven’t actually. 

[00:21:50] Emma-Louise: Yeah, pitches. They get responded to, to say thank you. And you, you go onto the list and if you’re a good fit, we’ll reach out when recording opens up again.

Cause I batch my recordings two to three times. Yeah. Exactly. So people, I have an actual list. I can 

[00:22:07] Mai-Kee: verify this. I also have it tool list. And, um, yeah. And that’s an interesting point that you, that you shared there, right? The fact that you batch. So if someone 

[00:22:18] Emma-Louise: pitched you outside of your batch 

[00:22:20] Mai-Kee: season, then they could make it mean that they weren’t good enough to be on your show.

Right? So any rejection or, or any radio silence that we may receive? It’s actually in our hands with like what we’re making that mean about us. And that I think is what makes people stop because they’re making it seem as if they’re not good enough, they’re making it seem as if they’re not worthy to have their voice heard.

But that’s why it’s important to just like, be aware of what people are actually saying. Like I share with my students all the time when they are tracking all of them. Um, all of their pictures in the spreadsheet. I tell them note down the reason why you’re getting the clients, because if you’re getting one that has a piece of personal feedback about your topic or about your approach or something, that might be a pattern there that you might need to shift.

But if you’re declines are reasons outside of your control, like. Not, you know, they’re not recording or they’re going on a hiatus right now. That’s got nothing to do with us. It’s got nothing to do with you. And if you make it seem as if you’re not good enough, then that’s something that you can change.

And so I just wanted to share that because, um, we make a lot of things, mean things about ourselves. That actually aren’t true. We make it seem true for us. That’s not actually true in the grand scheme of it. 

[00:23:49] Emma-Louise: Something that happens to me quite low, someone will pitch and because I batch record. I’ve just recorded an episode on something very, very similar.

I had a free pitch a few months ago, and literally the week before I had recorded an episode on a very similar topic. So to me, I’m not going to record that topic again probably for six months, because I’m, I’m very cautious to spread things out with my audience so that yeah. Know a good mix and it’s not the same thing repeated over and over again.

So that meant absolutely nothing about that person. That was, that was just bad timing. And I don’t doubt that I’ll reach out to them in the future to do an episode. Mm. 

[00:24:26] Mai-Kee: Yeah. And on that note, sometimes if I, if I like the person who’s pitching to me, based on what I seen that email, um, sometimes I even give them like a nudge I’m literally like, oh, we’ve actually just recorded an episode.

I’d be curious to know any alternative angles that you could potentially talk about. So give them a little bit of leeway. If I feel that they have someone who I do want to have on the podcast. So I’m not that mean I’m only mean to people who aren’t disrespectful to me. That’s not true.

I’m not 

[00:25:06] Emma-Louise: mean unless you disrespect me, then 

[00:25:07] Mai-Kee: I know that I’m going to be me. I know how to be fair. With anybody who tries to breach my boundaries or my values, because one of my biggest values is respect and kindness and compassion. And if someone breaches that to me, then I will, I won’t fight fire with fire because even though I am a tourist, I have quite a water lake personality that can ebb and flow.

I know where not to spend any excess energy. I’m not going to teach people who aren’t ready to listen or have no intention whatsoever 

[00:25:44] Emma-Louise: to listen. I feel like values and boundaries could be a whole other episode for introverts and highly sensitive. I’m not, I’m not that one down for that next batch. We can come back and cover that one.

One thing I would love to touch on and I find this really interesting from a personal point of view. Obviously every podcast is different. The format is different. The intention behind it is different. Mine is very much a podcast to share value with my audience. And I choose people accordingly. So often pitches will say, oh, I would love to come and talk to your audience about Facebook ads or, you know, whatever the thing is and online business.

And I’m like, okay, great. Very occasionally. And clearly from people that don’t listen to the show. I get a pitch that says I would love to come and talk to your audience. I have been through hardships. This happened when I was five, and then I survived this and then, you know, I lost all my money. And then, and it’s like this, almost like a story about the person where, where they want to inspire.

Now I get that there are podcasts where it’s much more about, Hey, what? What’s this person they’re really inspiring. Let’s let’s hear their life story. But mine obviously is not bad. It’s more about, you know, coming to learn something that can help propel you forwards and your business and personal development.

How do you feel with those two types of pitchers yourself? Mm. 

[00:27:11] Mai-Kee: So is something that I called the story to strategy scale. So if you imagine, like, you know, a scale one end of the story one and the strategy, and I feel that the story-based kind of podcast they’re more for, uh, You know, brand loyalty purposes.

Cause you only really want to hear a story about someone who you kind of care about. Right. Um, that say, oh, I respect this person. I want to hear more about that 

[00:27:37] Emma-Louise: story. So 

[00:27:37] Mai-Kee: they’d be on the story side. The strategy side is mainly for brand awareness and potential brand loyalty as well. So there is a mismatch when you have a strategy ish like podcasts like this, for example, um, that has some story elements in fuse, but it’s definitely not the entire.

Right. But I have a couple of friends who have pure story-based podcasts, which will fully, you know, they’d be fully open to someone who has a story to share like that. However, it’s important that when you’re the one pitching yourself, you need to just kind of imagine where they may lie. Scale, are they a hybrid or are they full story or are they full strategy?

If you are, if you want to share your story personally, without sharing the strategy side of things, then you might want to pitch more story-based podcasts. And unfortunately, if you did Google, um, like all story-based business podcast, I’m not sure what you’d actually come up with. I can’t say that. Yeah.

They won’t have a list, but it’s really something that you’d only really know if you paid attention to the podcast you’re listening to. So I think when people are pitching themselves for story-based episodes, they should only really pitch that towards people who are fully open to only hearing the story.

[00:28:56] Emma-Louise: I love that. It’s just so important to know the difference. And I think it comes back to that. Like you say, feeling respected and feeling that people have taken the time to research you and understand you that when I get a very story-based pitch, I’m like, well, you clearly have

[00:29:14] Mai-Kee: exactly. Um, I mean, in, in one, on one hand, I’m like, well, I’m glad that you’ve managed to overcome the adversity that you have. And. I send them on their way because when I do rejection very, very nicely I’m quite, of course you do. I mean, I would say something along the lines of, you know, really appreciate you reaching out.

And again, like, I’m really glad that you managed to overcome the adversities that you have in your life to get you to where you are. I feel that another podcast would be. Um, who focuses a lot more on storytelling would be a much better fit for you than my, the, my podcast. So wish you all the best. Just, just something like that, because that is true.

Right? My audience wouldn’t eat up stories. Uh, uh wouldn’t yeah, they wouldn’t eat up story-based episodes very much. They wouldn’t, they ha they, they like a little bit of it. That’s why I always asked that question at the beginning of every episode. But they’re not really there for story-based alone that therefore the story then the strategies, you know, so for anyone who wants to share their story more than what they can teach, then that’s fine.

Just make 

sure 

[00:30:27] Mai-Kee: that the podcasts you’re reaching out to already for that. And that’s what they do. 

[00:30:32] Emma-Louise: Perfect. Two more questions 

[00:30:35] Mai-Kee: before we wrap 

[00:30:36] Emma-Louise: up, um, the first being anyone that’s listening along today and they are like, yes, I’m fired up. I’m ready. And may K is the person to teach me this? What resources do you have where they can learn more about becoming a guest on podcasts?

Yeah, 

[00:30:52] Mai-Kee: absolutely. So I do have this amazing resource. So when I said that I asked podcasters what they want. I put it in a different form that’s easily accessible because that was more of a behind the scenes asked. I asked them, but then I just turned it into teaching material. However, I asked 25 podcasters.

What has one out of the box, piece of advice you’d like to share with someone who wants to get on more podcasts and I recorded their answers and I popped it all into this one. Amazing resource called be our podcast. And what’s really cool is at the time of this recording, I’m actually working on the 2.0 version, which Emily’s will actually be a part of as well.

So depending on when you’re listening to this episode, you might get the 20, 21 version. But if you’re listening to this before the upgrade actually happens, it’s still going to be there. Anyway, you can go to 25 experts. Don’t make anything.com to get access to that pretty much ASAP. And if you want to have, you know, Conversations with me about podcast testing or even outside of that, I am absolutely the most active on Instagram.

You can find me at, make a thing. M a K E 

[00:32:01] Emma-Louise: T S I N G. Perfect. I’m going to drop all of your links in the show notes as well, so that everyone can access you. And of course, I’m also going to drop the link to your answer to my last question, which. Which book would you recommend to my audience for ambitious introverts who are looking to grow and scale their online business?

[00:32:21] Mai-Kee: You know, I had three book recommendations I did want to say, but I think in relation to this conversation, we’ve had today all about podcast guesting and how. Rejection can be a big reason why a lot of people don’t do it for long enough to really give it a shot. So I recommend this book is called rejection proof by Ja Jang.

And it’s basically a story about how this guy went on a journey to get 100 nos. Like 100 rejections is very similar to 20 knows. Yeah, exactly. And the reason why he did that is because he. He took it to heart. When he got rejections from investors, when he was reading, looking to stop an app. So he wants to give out, but his very pregnant wife said to him that no, I gave you four months.

You’ve got a hundred days left to give it a shot. So what he did in attempt to really separate himself from what he he’s making these rejections mean to the actual truth, he a hundred days of rejection. Uh, you know, seeking rejection, actual rejection, and he recorded the whole thing, um, like on his blog and videos.

And he actually wrote a book about it to share all the stories and they upped pretty damn phenomenal. Like does one, for example, where here, um, around the time it was a 2012 Olympics. Right. So he went into a local Krispy Kreme donut shop and he asked, Hey, could you, um, you know, make me some donuts in the shape of the Olympic rings and actually with the same color and the person who we spoke to her name is Jackie.

She took on the challenge. And then, so he waited and waited and then she did it. She merged like five donuts with the precise coloring of these rings. He wouldn’t have got that unless he 

[00:34:16] Emma-Louise: actually asked and 

[00:34:19] Mai-Kee: a lot more story, like playing football in a random person that got it or asking to do a, you know, when you’re on an airplane and, you know, the stewardess.

They make their announcements. So he asked to do an announcement and he caught everyone’s attention. It was like, like, oh, this is by the way, I’m not a crew member. So everyone was like, oh, well. And I think he just told a joke or something, but anyway, the stories are really entertaining. That’s full, but it has a really important lesson for us to share is that rejection is whatever we make it.

And I just find the story really entertaining, but the drive home message is the same, just to help you become more rejection proof just by experiencing it more. And it’s not as scary as you make it as we make it seem, you know, it’s the anticipation of rejection. That’s the worst, I think, than the actual thing itself.

But we are a lot more stronger than we give ourselves credit for. So I highly recommend the book. 

[00:35:19] Emma-Louise: I love it. Rejection, proof and resilience in business. Perfect. May Kay. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom with us. I’m going to pop all left the links in the show notes. So my listeners can connect 

[00:35:30] Mai-Kee: with you.

Thank you so much.