Mindfulness for Entrepreneurs with Julia de’Caneva

[00:00:00] Emma-Louise Parkes: Hello, and welcome to the ambitious introvert podcast. I’m Emma Lewis and I am joined by one of my beautiful clients today to discuss a topic with. Gets a bit misinterpreted and misrepresented. So something that I have been familiar with for a number of years, I’m really excited to bring Julia on to discuss it because she is an expert.

I just feel like it’s one of those things we were just discussing gets like a buzzword or seems like a bit abstract or esoteric and people are like, oh yeah, I kind of know what that is, but not really. And what we’re going to be discussing is mindfulness. So Julia, 

[00:00:51] Julia de’Caneva: welcome. Thank you so much. So excited to be here.

Thank 

[00:00:56] Emma-Louise Parkes: you for being a guest. Please introduce yourself and tell my audience a [00:01:00] little bit about you and your business. 

[00:01:01] Julia de’Caneva: Hmm. Hello audience. I’m at well, first and foremost and ambitious introvert podcast. Fan girl. But otherwise I’m Julia deacon, Neva, and I’m a business organizer and life coach for small business owners looking to beat burnout.

And I’m also a Gallup certified strengths coach, which I incorporate into my coaching and just trained in 2021 with the UCLA, um, mindful awareness research center in their training. Cilitation program. So very excited to talk about mindfulness here. Beautiful. And 

[00:01:43] Emma-Louise Parkes: we were just saying before we hit record, this really is full circle because we’ve as connected because you left me a podcast review, I think like year ago.

Yeah, you missed it. And you won the, when I say people like you get, you know, [00:02:00] someone each month gets a free session. They really do because

they’ve got the free session. And so we connected and then we always remained in contact. And there were a few times that I ran masterminds and things that you’re interested, they didn’t quite work out. And then the stars aligned and it was the right time to work together. And here we are. Yeah. 

[00:02:23] Julia de’Caneva: That’s beautiful.

[00:02:25] Emma-Louise Parkes: So I think it’s quite clear, but I will ask anyway, do you identify as an introvert, an empath and a highly sensitive entrepreneur? All, 

[00:02:35] Julia de’Caneva: all of the above, definitely. Especially. Um, yeah, just, yes, 

[00:02:43] Emma-Louise Parkes: just you are just like that. The ideal clay quintessential,

do you know your human design? 

[00:02:53] Julia de’Caneva: I do. I’m a manifesting generator and just recently dove into [00:03:00] understanding six to profile and still getting to know that more 

[00:03:05] Emma-Louise Parkes: as a manifesting generator. I love how your business, um, I have another client, uh, Monisha who’s manifesting generator, and we discussed the same thing when we recorded her episode, how you’ve incorporated different areas.

It’s like the Gallup strengths, like mindfulness and you know, your own experience of organization and brought, brought it all together in such a unique way. Like this is why, I don’t know when people feel like maybe imposter syndrome or not. Enoughness it’s to remember that. No one else has your experience, your credentials, your skills.

I like to bring it together in that way. Everyone’s so unique and that’s why our businesses are so unique and they need to be coached. And that way, not like we’re all following, like cookie cutter formula. 

[00:03:56] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah, absolutely. And if I can add even more [00:04:00] fodder to that argument is I have an identical twin sister.

And so having an actual clone of myself has really helped us see how much we’re so different and how we have to honor the things that we do well and just, you know, fully customize our lives to fit each of us. Excuse me. And. Everybody has to do that. There there’s no one way to do it. And when you’re building a small business, how exciting that you get to build it, to suit your own tendencies and your strengths and the things you don’t do as well.

And all of that beautiful ness wrapped into one. 

[00:04:43] Emma-Louise Parkes: And I see this, I see people leave that corporate role because they want to start their own business, but then they grow that business in a way that someone else has done. And it’s like, no, you’ve just jumped out of one mold and, and into another, just as an aside, is your sister into human design [00:05:00] at all?

[00:05:01] Julia de’Caneva: I don’t even know if she’s heard about, because you have a corporate role right now. And so I don’t think. I was 

[00:05:10] Emma-Louise Parkes: at work. Yeah. Because I’m guessing your profiles are either going to be exactly the same or very, very similar. 

[00:05:18] Julia de’Caneva: Yes. We’re only a minute apart. So I believe that we have the same chart I was going to add.

I have several friends who do human design readings, and I was like, Hmm, you’ve been going to a joint session for 

[00:05:32] Emma-Louise Parkes: us. So interesting. Really interesting to see how. Expresses because obviously each, you know, all of the different aspects of human design, uh, a guy. And how we should live. It doesn’t mean that we all live in that way, but also each aspects got kind of a, I don’t want to call it a shadow, but like a not self theme.

So if we’re not honoring our design that expresses, and if we are, then we get the, the [00:06:00] ease and the flow. So I think people could think like, oh, if you’re an identical twin, it’s going to be exactly the same, but not necessarily. 

[00:06:07] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah. It isn’t. It’s so far it isn’t. And then actually makes me think of how I got to mindfulness in the first place.

Um, was part of my human design reading, talked about around the age of 30, having a big sort of medical crisis and then coming out of an and bringing that knowledge to people, which is exactly what happened in my life. And the reason I came to mindfulness. So. When I was 29 and 2018, um, I was super burned out.

The more sober, I can’t describe that enough. Um, just a level of burnout that I didn’t know before. And I was like, ah, something really needs to change it. I just really don’t know how to do [00:07:00] that. And then fast forward to October of 2018, I got diagnosed with thyroid cancer after finding a lump in my neck.

Um, seeing the doctor. All that good stuff. And instead of the process of getting a biopsy and getting the results, and then taking some time off of work, I was working as a creative director at the time. Um, a lot of people were like, oh, that must have been so stressful and anxiety producing and all of these things.

And I was like, well, actually it was kind of beautiful to finally have an excuse to stop working. I’m such. I’m so deeply into overworking and working 70, 80 hours a week. And, well, no wonder I was burned out, but yeah, the slow down, it felt so luxurious. Like the birds were chirping and it sounded beautiful and it was [00:08:00] sunny and you know, all that, just the little things in life felt really luxurious, which.

At the time I didn’t have a language for, I just knew that it felt really good and I felt peaceful and happy and everyone’s like, you have cancer and I’m like, I can still be happy. What is that? Uh, and they recognized then a year later, When I went to a sort of yin yoga class that, and I say sort of, because it was labeled in yoga, but it was really just gentle movement with meditation.

And I realized going to that class, that what I had experienced was mindfulness and it was presence and it was echo nymity all of these kind of fancy words that really just. You know, described my lived experience. So rather than me [00:09:00] seeking mindfulness, it kind of found me 

[00:09:04] Emma-Louise Parkes: and they love this example of the birds are chirping because until he notice something like that, you don’t know that you haven’t been noticing.

Totally. And that to me is the epitome of being mindful, like in, in any of it, to me, I always think of food because I eat notoriously quick. Me too. It’s been a thing for my whole life. It’s a constant battle and it wasn’t helped by the fact that I was a flight attendant for six years. And you didn’t eat quickly.

You didn’t eat because it would be like mouthfuls in between yep. 17 coffee or whatever. It’s been really challenging for me to slow down and actually taste and enjoy the food. But I know [00:10:00] when I do, when I make the conscious effort to do it, it’s so much better. 

[00:10:04] Julia de’Caneva: It’s so simple to too. I mean, that’s kinda just the beauty.

Yeah. You’re like, oh, okay. I can do that. I think as you know, Sort of opened us up today. Mindfulness is very much misunderstood and also. Kind of a morphous people don’t ever really get. It’s the sort of thing that people say I should be doing it and then have no idea what that even really looks like or what that’s supposed to do.

So my favorite way to describe mindfulness, because you can really have your own definition of it. But, um, my version is to describe mindfulness as. Bringing a quality attention to the present moment with an openness curiosity, and [00:11:00] non-judgment for what you notice there. And there’s two key pieces to that definition.

The first being. Placing your intention somewhere that you were in control of your attention and that’s beautiful. And that’s a really wonderful skill to hone and something that you can absolutely cultivate, but it’s not just about paying attention. The second half of that is this openness. As I said, non-judgment for what you’re noticing.

And that’s really where the magic is and in my mind, and in my own experience, because you’re just allowing things and experiences and emotions and sensations. To exist as they are, because they’re already happening to you. It’s not, you don’t have a choice in [00:12:00] that, but you do have a choice in how you react to them.

And that is the piece that I think is really, really just so exciting. 

[00:12:10] Emma-Louise Parkes: That very much leads into mindset, work for a lot of people, because the awareness of your thoughts. But without berating yourself for them or notes in them. Like for example, one of my clients said to me, oh, I can’t wait until I’ve done as much mindset work as you and I don’t have these negative thoughts.

And I was like, whoa, hang on a second. Like those thoughts still come up, but I’m able to. View them very neutrally now, or to be like, oh, that’s just that old pattern that comes up or, oh, is this helpful to me to carry this thought and act on it? No, no, it’s not helpful. So I’m just going to ignore it. But you know, that is all, all change or growth.

Everything [00:13:00] starts with that away. And non-judgment because since we got, oh, no, like stupid brain, I’m thinking that again, I’m so useless. Like it’s all, it’s all gone. Like, it’s that being able to almost detach yourself from it. Um, if you read the soul. Yes. Great. But highly recommend that anyone who this concept of like detaching yourself and being mindful of your thoughts without judgment, because the whole book is about that.

But it’s told in like such a, such a beautiful way, and I love that you touched me attention. Because I talk a lot about curating your tech, curating your social media, all of these things so that you’re in control. Like I famously, I don’t have my phone on noise. I barely have notifications. Things are muted.

Things get deleted in the evenings and weekends. I’m, I’m very mindful in that way of [00:14:00] what I consume and choosing when I consume it. Is that a big part of mindful. 

[00:14:06] Julia de’Caneva: Absolutely. I think mindfulness is, it’s a practice. It’s not really a skill, you know, bringing your attention is sort of the skill. And it’s totally about noticing everything, but not in a hypervigilant way.

It’s paying attention. And the more that you’re in the present moment and. Uh, as a quick aside, I think a really easy way to be mindful is to pay attention to sensations in your body because your physical body is always present. Your brain likes to go in the future and go in the past, but your physical body will always keep you grounded in the present moment.

And so that’s why so many, [00:15:00] uh, especially beginner mindfulness practices. Uh, rooted in sensations in the body. And so. I I’m saying that, uh, in response to what you were talking about, because when you practice being in the present moment, you also start to realize what is, and isn’t serving you. You start to realize that having your Instagram notifications on your phone, which I can’t even fathom a world in which I would have mine on sounds so stressful, but you start to realize what is really getting in your way.

And. So much of our technology is competing for our attention. And so when we have a practice like mindfulness, that’s about honing our attention and really owning our attention. What a beautiful. [00:16:00] Practice that is, and a beautiful way to counter so much input from the outside world, particularly when you’re highly sensitive, introverted, empathic, or all of the above, that’s such a critical practice to include.

It gives you a tool in your tool. 

[00:16:19] Emma-Louise Parkes: Well, I was saying to you, obviously, just before we hit record and anyone that’s followed me for a while will know this, they do complete tech detox at the weekends. So, you know, the, at least one full day, my phone is in flight mode. Like I don’t even get texts. It’s just off.

There’s no email, no social media, nothing. I don’t open the laptop. And my nervous system feels. Even in that day. Um, I actually heard, I was listening to another podcast yesterday and they said it can take up to 72 hours without your phone before you stop thinking about your phone even [00:17:00] subconsciously. So that was really interesting.

But even that day for me, which might be like Friday evening through to Sunday morning, time feels different. Mm. Hmm. It just, and I’m not like I’m not someone with a ton of notifications on, I’m not someone that’s spending hours scrolling. So just those small switches I think can make such a difference to people.

[00:17:25] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah. It makes a huge difference in. It’s the reason that meditation retreats are silent. The idea is to give yourself the least amount of incoming stimulation possible from every avenue. And so people I’ve done several meditation retreats over zoom during the pandemic and. Every time. I tell people that it’s seven days and of course you have to be on zoom.

So it’s not totally off [00:18:00] of tech, but close all the other browsers. And don’t use your phone and don’t read books and don’t watch TV. And people are like, whew, that sounds terrifying. And it is terrifying when you don’t know what to do with yourself, but when you’re meditating, You can also do this with mindfulness in your day to day life.

It’s fine if you never do it retreat. Um, but you have something to do. You’re the goal is to work with your attention and notice what comes up and our brains are built to think. So they’re just gonna keep on thinking. Even if you turn off all the external noise, eventually you can get to a point where you’re not, you know, you don’t feel like a rat in a cage, but.

Your brain is always going to keep thinking. And so the practice is always there for you. There’s always an opportunity to notice your thoughts and notice what it’s trying to tell you. Not get caught up [00:19:00] in the story. And I’ll sort of close this thought with the important distinction between mindfulness versus meditation.

There’s a lot of ambiguity there and 

[00:19:16] Emma-Louise Parkes: it was going to be my next question. They get lumped together. 

[00:19:19] Julia de’Caneva: They do, they do. And understandably, because. There is such a thing called mindfulness meditation. So the way that I think about it might be different from other people is mindfulness as paying attention in individual moments per my definition earlier.

And meditation is a set period of intentional back to back. So. You can be mindful in a moment and then the next not be mindful and then be mindful and not mindful, but you can also sit down or [00:20:00] walk or lay down or stand up. All of those are totally valid when you’re meditating, but if you do that for several moments in a row at minimum, then you’re meditating.

Uh, because that becomes a mindfulness meditation where you’re, there’s a period of time where you’re paying it. And then of course there are a million other kinds of meditation that people practice visualizations, loving, kindness, um, gratitude, chakra, energy healing, like there’s all of these other meditations that while they compliments mindfulness and mindfulness meditation are not actually.

Mindful, they’re not inherently paying attention to your present moment experience with openness. So, uh, it all gets lumped together and you know, you don’t ever [00:21:00] have to practice meditation if you want to practice mindfulness. But if you like mindfulness in the individual moments, you’re probably gonna like the meditation too.

That seems to be the, if. 

[00:21:15] Emma-Louise Parkes: I’ve been doing body scan meditation by Davidji every evening. Um, my sleep is amazing. Like I get about an extra hour of REM sleep from, from doing it, but it just cuts me as she was saying that, that that is a form of mindfulness meditation. So it’s like, you know, body scan from, from top to bottom and then bottom to top and it’s, uh, acknowledge and accept.

So you acknowledge your toes and accept, you know, maybe they feel cold or maybe, you know, or whatever you think about them, but it’s, there’s no judgment. You just, you notice it and you accept it and you move on [00:22:00] to the next part. And I fall asleep. Before it’s finished. Oh, no, isn’t the boy. I’m going to have some supportive.

I’m going to have some meditation person writing and be like, you’re not meant to fall asleep during your meditation. I’m like, it’s fine. But it, but it does it just, um, My I’m so mindful on what I’m noticing that my brain just switched off from everything else. And then I’m gone. I’m asleep. 

[00:22:28] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah, absolutely.

I love facilitating body scan. Some people hate it, some people, but as a highly sensitive person, it’s one of the practices that resonates the most with me. And. Be the most present. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you fall asleep because I did a yoga nidra training last year, which sort of loosely translated as yoga sleep.

And then March part of the traditional practice is an extensive body [00:23:00] scan. Uh, As the certified mindfulness facilitator, I fully support you falling asleep during your body scans. A lot of people do find that when they sit down particularly to meditate, Um, that they do get sleepy and that’s okay. A lot of it will give you good information about your quality of sleep.

And maybe you need to nap more often than you didn’t realize, or you’re crashing off of caffeine and you shouldn’t be having caffeine and just using it as data. And not a judgment. I think that’s the really important piece of getting sleepy really brings anything you a caffeine drinker? No, I can’t. I, I stopped when I got cancer and just haven’t gone back because it’s too much, 

[00:23:53] Emma-Louise Parkes: we’ve talked about this in your coaching sessions before we’ve talked about food and we both, you know, similar [00:24:00] kind of digestion and food sensitivities and things, and.

I love caffeine, but camping does not love 

[00:24:07] Julia de’Caneva: me. I know I was a complete black tea addict before getting camp. Half and half, you know, the whole nine yards. I can’t do dairy or caffeine. Awesome. 

[00:24:21] Emma-Louise Parkes: No, I’m with you. I did. I actually have full caffeine coffee today. Oh, it was, oh, it was my first day out of isolation.

So I’d been in the house for 16 days and I was allowed out, so I walked to nice local coffee shop and I was like, I’m going to get, we can hand. Single origin, brutes taste the coffee. Um, and I had some kind of bitterness tasting with COVID. So I finally got my taste back and going to have it, and actually this contains mindfulness because it was just so like to take that first sip.

Of the coffee. Like I’m not just walking along, like swigging it [00:25:00] while I’m talking to someone on my phone and walking the dog or whatever. I was cradle in this coffee in my hand. So I was like smelling it. And I was like, oh, I ain’t going to take that first taste. And it’s going to be like hot and slightly bitter.

And then ain’t going to get the flavors and, oh, it was just amazing anyway, but I felt really jittery for about to dress. 

[00:25:21] Julia de’Caneva: It’s, uh, I love that you brought that up because that experience is an actual practice called the savoring. And it’s checking in with your five senses just to prove long the enjoyment of any experience.

So, yeah. You’re in it fully mindful. 

[00:25:42] Emma-Louise Parkes: I’ve got permission to fall asleep while I meditated and permission. 

[00:25:46] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah. And I love the savoring too, as an entryway to mindfulness, because it can be as simple as just enjoying the feeling of your sheets. When you slide into bed at night or [00:26:00] just stepping into the shower or eating your favorite food or drinking your coffee or tea.

It’s just an open invitation to look for joy and use your present moment experience to ground you. And I’m like, oh, what a hundred cool practice. I will definitely look for joy. 

[00:26:22] Emma-Louise Parkes: So simple as you say. In modern life. I think where people’s attention is pulled in different directions. And we are, you know, a lot of times in a rush and busy.

And as you quite rightly said, either thinking about something in the future or dwelling on something in the past, I think it’s those small moments that. That get missed. I, I know when I was a controller and this is a very generic, sorry to lump you millennials together, but a lot of the millennials would, you know, come into the break room and sit [00:27:00] down and straight away, get their phone out.

Like there was no presence of moment with having a conversation or they would be having a conversation with someone and they’d get a notification and you pull, pull the phone out, maybe because I’m older. That’s just not something I’ve ever done, but I went through most of my teenage years without a phone and, and technology, but it’s just interesting, isn’t it?

Because. You know, introvert, deep conversation, all of that, you know, we, we save for that. But how many of those experiences that are actually deeply nourishing to us are being interrupted by technology or by not noticing details and rushing around? 

[00:27:39] Julia de’Caneva: Yes, so many, so, so, so many, because again, everything’s.

Competing for, for our attention. And it’s so easy for our brains to just follow the dopamine hits as opposed to the things that really nourish us and our personalities and [00:28:00] what we’ve like and what we don’t like as opposed to just this very transactional. Pinging all the time. And it’s exactly that you get sort of habituated into not paying deep attention.

[00:28:15] Emma-Louise Parkes: Which is frightening this podcast, I think it’s called and we’ll look it up and link it in the show notes, your undivided attention. And there’s a documentary on Netflix. Um, and the guys worked for various social networks. I think one of them worked for Google and maybe one of them YouTube. And they didn’t like the way that, that one of them actually invented the endless.

But it was invented from a user experience, point of view, as a designer that he wanted it to be seamless and not to be an end, but didn’t realize how it was going to be used to manipulate people’s attention spans and. [00:29:00] Leaving. And, you know, they put together this podcast, which is very interested and they talk about things like slot machines and how they’re designed in certain ways to keep your attention and the same thing, as you say, with like pings and notifications and instant gratification and dopamine hits.

So I’ll link that in the show notes as well, because I think it’s pretty interesting. Um, but yeah, we have to take the control back over our own attention and choose where are we going to place our mindfulness? Hmm. 

[00:29:30] Julia de’Caneva: There’s it made me think of a book. That’s not the book I hope to recommend anyway, but it’s called digital minimalism by Cal Newport.

Yeah. It’s just that technology is sort of stealing our solitude and how much we thrive in solitude, especially introverted and path HSPs and. [00:30:00] Allowing the space away from technology to show you what else you can be doing to support your nervous system and just your overall, really overall happiness in general.

That definitely. I couldn’t help, but bring it up when you talked 

[00:30:17] Emma-Louise Parkes: about that. No, it’s great. I love Cal Newport. I love deep work. This first book I devoured that I read that many years ago and it was just wonderful to, like you say, understand. I think most people listening to this show will prefer that over width.

So we definitely want to go deeper and be more involved in what we do and, and feel nourished. From that rather than being scattered everywhere. So you discussed savoring, which was great. I didn’t know. That was practice, even though I was doing it with my coffee. Anyone else that’s listening that maybe isn’t quite ready for the meditation route.[00:31:00] 

Do you have any other small things that they could start to incorporate into their day to start to cultivate that mindfulness? 

[00:31:07] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah. So the beauty of mindfulness is that. Almost anything can be turned into an opportunity for mindfulness, but that in itself can be a little intimidating. So some great places to start are, like I said earlier, noticing sensations in your body.

If you’re sitting at your desk, working, taking a moment to notice the way the keyboard feels on your fingers or noticing. The sensation of your feet on the ground, or if it’s like touching a chair or a bed or a cushion, um, and very, very commonly people will pay attention to their breasts and with the breathing in particular, [00:32:00] but any mindfulness.

What works for you might not work for someone else. What someone else loves you might make, make you feel uncomfortable. There’s not a right answer to it. And that’s the beauty of it. So you get to pick the thing that works for you. If you’re noticing your breath, you can notice the quality of your breath coming in and out of your nostrils.

If it’s cool or warm, you can notice your chest or belly rising and falling. You can listen for your breath. Like there’s so many nuances that you can just pay attention to. And so, yeah, I think one of the best things you can do is pick something that you do frequently and that you always pay attention.

Try to notice it can be notice every time you pick up your phone and feel it in your hand. So people like. [00:33:00] Be curious. That’s part of the curiosity, curious. Yeah. Just see what you might find. 

[00:33:07] Emma-Louise Parkes: I remember years ago I had a life coach and plants and we got her to. Visualize when she was brushing her teeth because she was very busy.

She was, you know, someone with kids and a lot going on, but she wanted to make changes and it’s like, how can we start to incorporate those changes? And it was to start to add new habits, but in a way, While she’s already doing things that she’s already doing. Right. So it’s not like a huge change. So it’s like, you know, you’re always going to be spending two minutes in the morning, two minutes in the evening, brushing your teeth.

Like, so take that time to do affirmations or do visualization or whatever. And then we would build up. He was the type of person who, while the capital would be boiling for morning coffee, she was doing like 15 other [00:34:00] things at the same time. And eventually we said like, don’t do anything else while the kettle’s boiling, just wait for the kettle to boil.

And then that’s that opportunity. I think, like you said, start to notice what are the sensations or what else is going on that you had missed or what thoughts are popping up? 

[00:34:19] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah. I love that suggestion. I think trying to start. A new practice, like mindfulness, it can feel like, but when do you do it? And yeah, it can be exactly that.

W when you’re waiting before a zoom meeting and there’s that like 30 seconds before you’re both on, instead of grabbing your phone or checking your email and tricking slack, notice how you feel in that moment. And that’s it. It’s as we say in the mindfulness world, it’s simple, but not easy. 

[00:34:56] Emma-Louise Parkes: I would concur with that as I think, add in [00:35:00] any new habits or any new kind of practice, um, getting outside of our comfort zone or doing something different in, in any way.

It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what it is, no matter how accomplished you are. It doesn’t matter how much success you’ve had when we are trying to grow and improve in any way. There’s always that little feeling of discomfort. 

[00:35:21] Julia de’Caneva: Yes, it would not be growth if it wasn’t uncomfortable. 

[00:35:25] Emma-Louise Parkes: And it doesn’t last, that’s the important thing to remember, right.

Where it feels, you know, the first few weeks, as you say, it might feel like a big effort to put a practice in that it actually will start to just be part of your routine. It will start to be part of life. 

[00:35:41] Julia de’Caneva: Yeah. And mindfulness would ask us just to notice that discomfort. Whether it be what it is not trying to change it 

[00:35:51] Emma-Louise Parkes: and not judge it.

Juliette, thank you so much for coming and breaking down this. Like I [00:36:00] say, very abstract buzzwordy topic and to something that now sounds so simple and tangible and doable and accessible. To everyone that is listening. Obviously I’m going to pop all of your details in the show notes. If anyone would like to connect with you and learn more about the work you do.

But I would love to know we’ve already had digital minimalism, but which book would you recommend to my audience who are looking to start grow or scale their online business? 

[00:36:30] Julia de’Caneva: Yes. Come with me on this reference being. Part for your business. So the book that I like to recommend is called the five invitations by Frank Ostaseski.

And it’s, I think the subtitle of the book is discovering what death can teach us about living fully. So that might scare you, or that might sound [00:37:00] like the best thing ever. And in my mind, Living fully and building a small business that you love go hand-in-hand. You can’t build your own custom small business for you that you really thrive in without acknowledging what matters to you.

And there’s no more clarifying power than mortality. And, uh, Frank Ostaseski. Author is the like founder. Co-founder very integral in the starting of the Zen hospice project. And so the book has a very deeply Zen Buddhist. Approach. Um, but there’s a lot of beautiful lessons in there and opportunities for reflection that I think really translate to building a business that is sustainable and matters to you.

So, uh, that’s why I said, bear [00:38:00] with me on the can feel. It’s definitely, you’re not going to find it under the business section of your local bookstore, but I can’t recommend it. 

[00:38:09] Emma-Louise Parkes: Beautiful. I have not heard of it. So it’s going to be on my list. Obviously, it’s going to go on the reading list as well, but I think that’s so true.

It’s so important to remember that we can look for inspiration outside of just business books or the business world. You know, we can get that inspiration from fiction or, you know, autobiographies or, you know, very different types of books. So I love that you brought something slightly different to that.

[00:38:39] Julia de’Caneva: That’s what I’m here for. 

[00:38:42] Emma-Louise Parkes: Well, I’ll pop that in the show notes as well. Um, thank you so much for coming and sharing your mindfulness wisdom with 

[00:38:48] Julia de’Caneva: us. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This was an absolute delight and I’m just so glad to share my fullest with everybody.